British Overseas Citizens of Nepalese Origin for full British Citizenship Campaign

[ePs9WA]

On 19 March, Lord West of Spithead (Home Office Minister) tabled the following amendment to the the Borders, Citizenship & Immigration Bill:

Before Clause 43

LORD WEST OF SPITHEAD

Insert the following new Clause—
"British Nationals (Overseas) without other citizenship
(1) Section 4B of the British Nationality Act 1981 (c. 61) (acquisition by registration: certain persons without other citizenship) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection (1)—
(a) omit "or" immediately before paragraph (c), and
(b) after that paragraph insert ", or
(d) British National (Overseas)".
(3) In subsection (2)(c), for "4th July 2002" substitute "the relevant day".
(4) After subsection (2), insert—
"(3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(c), the "relevant day" means—
(a) in the case of a person to whom this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(d) only, 19th March 2009, and
(b) in any other case, 4th July 2002.""

If this is approved by parliament, then a solely BN(O) will not need to meet any ordinary residence test to become a British citizen. The law will require the BN(O) that the Secretary of State is satisfied that the person has not after 19th March 2009 renounced, voluntarily relinquished or lost through action or inaction any citizenship or nationality.

See http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... m029-d.htm

[damar]

Dear all,

Please see the press report + Editorial of SCMP (31 March 2009) in the following URL (it was in the front page!):

http://files.bornbefore76inhongkong.forumportal.us/BNOArticleEditorialSCM31March2009.pdf

Thanks,

Damar

[damar]

Dear all,

I just sent the following email to Sanju and Dev in UK. If you are in Hong Kong, from this group, and would like to be interviewed, please let me know.
Thanks,
With regards,
Damar

Hi Sanju and Dev,

A quick note - I just got a telephone call from Trilok Gurung , Chairman of NRN, saying that Ambrose Leung from SMCP - reporter who reported this issue on yesterday's SMCP - would like to interview someone who holds BN(O) passport, but was disqualified for British citizenship due to 4 Feb 97 residency clause. Since he would like to interview ASAP, do you have any contact from this group in Hong Kong? Please let me know.

If we do not have any contact in Hong Kong, possibly he could interview you guys too, provided both parties agree, of course!

Please let me know.

With regards,
Damar

[Dev]

Hi,

Any progress regarding this discussion. Any success or any thing helpful to us? Where can we see those discussion or progress about this amendment thing? Anyone knows any progress about amendment thing?

Thnx

[ePs9WA]

The bill has been amended successfully in the House of Lords yesterday.

See: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 009036.pdf

See Section 45 of the revised bill from the link above.

[Dev]

Hi,

Thnx for link. So, from now we don't need to meet any ordinary residence test of 4 Feb 97 residency clause.

And how about Nepali citizenship and HK ID things, when i enquire about BC to Home office they replied me that you (BNO) are not stateless, you have HK ID you can stay work in HK. so you are not stateless. And they ask me about Nepali citizen and i said i don't have indivisual letter but i have letter which mention that BNO lost Nepali citizen when they got BNO.

do we have to renounced Nepali citizenship and HK ID. And also will they need letter from each gov that indivisual person has renounced his nationality or....? How it works to apply BC? Sorry for lots of question I'm don't know how it works. Sorry about that. And when this law will be effect and we can apply for BC?

Thnx

[damar]

Hi Dev,

And how about Nepali citizenship and HK ID things, when i enquire about BC to Home office they replied me that you (BNO) are not stateless, you have HK ID you can stay work in HK. so you are not stateless.

In short, It is not true - our HKID does not represent our nationality!

And they ask me about Nepali citizen and i said i don't have indivisual letter but i have letter which mention that BNO lost Nepali citizen when they got BNO.

do we have to renounced Nepali citizenship and HK ID. And also will they need letter from each gov that indivisual person has renounced his nationality or....? How it works to apply BC? Sorry for lots of question I'm don't know how it works. Sorry about that. And when this law will be effect and we can apply for BC?

You were right that you lost your Nepalese citizenship because of your BN(O) passport. So, it is not necessary to announce your Nepalese citizenship!

Thanks,

With regards,

Damar

[Dev]

Dear Damarji,

Thnx for reply. So, we dont need to renounce our Nep citizen. And if Home Office ask about proof of Nep citizen lost then is this letter enough for that i.e. "http://www.britishcitizen.info/HK_Note_Verbale_regarding_BNOs.pdf" . Becoz when i apply for my son they ask me about no ctizen proof from Nep auhtority with his name.

Is this letter is enough for us(BNO) or ....need seperate letter with our indivisual name in it what do u think?

And any ideas when this rule will be in effect. In summer or at the end of this year.

Thnx

[damar]

Hi Dev,

I have not got a chance to go through the detail, but, as quoted in SCMP report recently, it should be by this summer.

Please see the following report of today's SCMP:

http://files.bornbefore76inhongkong.forumportal.us/aliShah.PDF

With regards,
Damar

[damar]

Dear all,

Please see the following announcement of British Consulate-General in Hong Kong at
http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-hong-kong/

Important Notice - Amendments to UK Nationality Legislation

Amendments to UK Nationality Legislation is currently being debated in the UK Parliament. An amendment has been proposed by the United Kingdom Government which will enable British Nationals (Overseas) who do not have another nationality to register as a British Citizen under Section 4B of the British Nationality Act 1981.

However, this amendment has not yet been passed into law. The British Consulate-General is therefore unable to advise on eligibility for British Citizenship until such time as the amendment becomes law, and the Home Office issues relevant guidance.

With regards,
damar

[cba]

Ye guys, the wait is over now. I hold BNO passport but was unable to apply for BC due to the residency trap. But today I contacted the British Consulate Hongkong and they told me that they will start accepting application starting this January 2010. One thing they also told me is that people can still apply currently(they can accept application even today) but the chances of approval was slim. I hope it will be a good news for at least some if not all.

cba

[Dev]

Is that correct CBA ji? Can we apply now? I'm in UK. Can i apply now? Any one knows about it? One lawyer told me to take a risk and apply now bcoz law is already there and just apply? Any one knows about it? I want apply now?

Dev

[damar]

Dear all,
Happy and prosperous New Year Dear all,

This change in Section 4B British Nationality Act 1981 will come into force on 13 January 2010. Please see the following URL for detail:

http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-hong-kong/section-4b-nationality-act

As for the statement for the Nepalese Government on the certificate of Nepalese citizenship, a letter from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Nepal, to the British Goverment should be enough, I guess. In the said letter, the Nepalese Government has clearly stated that the BN(O)s of Nepalese origin are not Nepalese. I am trying to find a copy of that letter.
Thanks,

With regards,
Damar

[damar]

Dear all,

Further to my last posting, I have got the copies of two notes of Verbale from the Nepalese Government to the British Government. The first note of Verbal was sent in 2005 from the Office of the Prime Minister & Council of Ministers, His Majesty’s Government of Nepal, and the second was in August 2007 from the Consulate General of Nepal, Hong Kong.

http://bonono.wordpress.com/files/2010/01/nepal_note_verbale_regardingbnos.pdf
http://bonono.wordpress.com/files/2010/01/hk_note_verbale_regarding_bnos.pdf

The first Verbale – sent from the Office of the Prime Minister & Council of Ministers – has accurately stated that:

“… all British Nationals (Overseas) have held foreign citizenship since birth and are not capable of meeting the legal requirement of being citizens of Nepal and so are not citizens of Nepal.”

In the second Verbal – sent from the Consulate General of Nepal, Hong Kong – it has stated:

“…holders of Nepalese Citizenship Certificate who have acquired British National (Overseas) Passport have lost their Nepalese Citizenship from the date of acquiring British National (Overseas) Passport.”

The above statement of the Consulate General of Nepal, Hong Kong, is not accurate!

The British National (Overseas) citizens were British citizens since birth - not from the date they acquired the British National (Overseas) password – so, all BN(O)s of Nepalese origin should have lost their Nepalese citizenship before they acquired BN(O) passport. I had talked about this with Mr. Battarai - then Acting Consul of Nepal in Hong Kong (the signatory of the letter) - and his explanation was that the Nepalese Government became aware of BN(O)s’ foreign nationality status only with their BN(O) passport. In other words, Mr Bhattarai wrongly interpreted that the BN(O)s of Nepalese origin were not British Citizens prior to the BN(O) registration.

In short:

• British Nationals (Overseas) citizens of Nepalese origin have been British since birth, so they never have been capable of meeting the legal requirement of being the citizens of Nepal unless they have renounced their British nationality status.
• With such a strong statement from the Nepalese Government, I cannot see any reasons why further statements are needed from the Nepalese Government on the status of BN(O) citizens of Nepalese origin!

With regards,
Damar

[damar]

Hi,
Please see the following note of Verbale from Nepalese Government too:
http://bonono.wordpress.com/files/2010/01/noteverbalefromnepalesegovt2british2006-607.pdf
With regards,
Damar

[damar]

Dear all,

Please see the following link:

http://www.hknepal.com/hknews/?p=779

HKNepal has posted an article on the issue of recent change of British Immigration Law on BN(O)s. I have been trying to post a message there, but, for some unknown reasons, I have not managed to do so. In the above URL, Mekh D. Gurung has given a perfect explanation.

The following is the message I have been trying to post there:

Dear all,

Mekh ji has given a perfect explanation on the issue. Like Mekh ji mentioned, I do not think BN(O)s of Nepalese origin has to bring further statement from Nepal (Nepalese law is clear, and Nepalese Government, I believe, has already given necessary statements!).

For further notes of verbale from the Nepalese Government, please see the following link:

amendment-to-allow-any-solely-bn-o-s-to-be-briitsh-citizen-t623.html

Like Mekh ji suggested, please share your experience – this is the strongest weapon for all BN(O)s.

Best of luck to you all.

With regards,
Damar

With regards,
Damar

[damar]

Hi,
The website of British Consulate-General in Hong Kong on the Section 4B British Nationality Act 1981 (change of Immigration law for BN(O)s):

http://ukinhongkong.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-hong-kong/section-4b-nationality-act

For its content as at 19 January 2010, please see the following file:

http://bonono.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/19jan2010.pdf

With regards,
Damar

[pkreli]

Hi all,

I checked with British Consulate today. They said even though I have BN(O), I still have to present a letter from Nepalese government stating that my Nepalese citizenship was issued in error.

On top of that, I should also present a letter from Immigration Department stating that I am not a Chinese citizen. For that, they suggested, I should apply for HKSAR passport and it will be rejected and Immigration will send me the rejection letter stating that I am not Chinese.

Wow ! The Brits are going at at great lengths to stop us !

[damar]

Hi pkreli,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Home Office, once again, has shown its true colour. The statements provided by the Nepalese Government are clear, what else it is expecting?

With regards,
Damar

[Dev]

Khai kasari apply agrne ho? Act thiyena pahile ahile hunda khai feri aru origin lai na chahine rahe cha feri hami nepali lai matra chanhine oho?

[damar]

Dear all,

I have posted the following post at http://www.hknepal.com/hknews/?p=779 (comment now is awaiting moderation):

Dear all,

मेरो नाम डमर थापा हो| गएको वर्ष , धन्न धन्न ३ बर्षको निरन्तर प्रयास र Lord Avebury र Tameem Ebrahim को अतिनै महत्तो पूर्ण सहयोग बाट, ब्रिटिश नागरिकता पाउन सफल भए | म १९९६ को अन्त मा हंग कंग आइ पुगेको थिए र मेरो BN(O) Registration Application १९९७ मा reject भएको थियो| तसर्थ मेरो BN(O) passport थिएन|

BN(O) बिनाको म जस्तो BOC को लागि नेपाल सरकारले BN(O) को लागि जस्तो बकाइदा पत्र ब्रिटिश सरकार लाइ पठाएको छैन, तसर्थ २००६ को अन्तमा मेरो British Citizenship registration application को बेला British Consulate-General ले यसरीनै नेपाल बाट यस्तै पत्र हुनु पर्छ भनेर जिद्दी गर्यो | Lord Avebury र Tameem Ebrahim को सल्लाहा अनुसार मैले पनि मेरो application लिनु नै पर्ने भनेर जिद्दी गरे, र application लिइयो पनि | तर application होम अफिस ले reject गर्यो |

Reject भए पछि Lord Avebury र Tameem Ebrahim को निरन्तर सहयोग बाट होम अफिस लाइ अदालत मा पुर्याउन सफल भए , तर अदालत मा पनि होम अफिस ले आफ्नो साचो रंग देखाउन पछी परेन| तसर्थ अदालत को कार्य जारि गर्न पाउने अनुमति हुदा हुदै पनि अदालत प्रक्रिया छाडन पर्ने बाध्यता गर्यो|

तर मैले देखेको अनुसार, BN(O) को हकमा नेपाल बाट बकाइदा को पत्र भएको कारण, अदालत मै गए पनि होम अफिस को साथमा तेती ठुलो बल छैन | तर स्मरण रहोस - नेपाल बाट गल्ति पत्र ल्याउनु भन्दा केहि पनि नल्याउनु नै राम्रो, नत्र बादर लाइ लिस्नो हुनेछ |

अन्य detail को लागि google मा bornbefore76inhongkong लाइ search गर्नु होला | Lord Avebury को personal blog मा पनि धेरै detail पाउन सक्नु हुन्छ |

I wish you all the best of luck.

With regards,
Damar

Damar

[damar]

Dear all,

Please see Lord Avebury's recent blog on BN(O)s of Nepalese origin (following link):

http://ericavebury.blogspot.com/2010/01 ... nship.html

What British Consulate-General in Hong Kong has asked from the applicant - apply Chinese passport - is totally unacceptable and irresponsible request. Is there a length Home Office won't go in preventing the BN(O)s of Nepalese origin from excersing their rights?

With regards,
Damar

[pkreli]

Hi friends,

Any updates on this issue ? I read in HKNepal comment that HK Immigration letter is no longer asked. Thanks to Lord Eric Averbuy for his support.

But what about the 'Nepalese citizenship issued in error' letter ? What shall we do about it ?

[damar]

Dear all,

मेरो बिचार मा सबै BN(O) हरुले नेपाल बाट कुनै पत्र नल्याएर नेपाल सरकारले दिएको पत्र नै काफी भएको, र् नेपाल सरकारले कुनै individual पत्र नदिने कुरामा अडान लिनु पर्छ। एक ब्यक्ती ले मात्र ल्याएको खन्डमा पनि नेपाल सरकारले त दिदोरहेछनी भनेर Home Office ले सबैलाई नै निउ खोज्न थालछ - BOC को केस मा त्यही भएको थियो|

So, let's take our ground right here first.

With regards,
Damar

[pkreli]

डमर जी ले भन्नु भएको एकदम सही हो। हामीले भुलवस नागरिकता दिइएको भन्ने चिठी बनाउनुहुँदैन किनकी नेपाली परराष्ट्र मन्त्रालय र नेपाली दुतावासले यसबारेमा प्रष्टसंग चिठी पठाईसकेको रहेछ। यो कुरा ब्रिटीश दुतावासको माथिल्लो म्यानेजमेन्टलाई दर्होसँग कसैले राख्नुपर्यो न की रिसेप्सनको क्लर्कको सुगा रटाईसँग विवाद गरेर बस्ने। लर्ड एरिक लाई यस विषयमा पनि कुरा उठाईदिन अनुरोध गर्न मिल्छ की डमर जी ?

[mimi]

Lord Avebury (Liberal Democrat)

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the British Consulate-General in Hong Kong has had discussions with the Hong Kong immigration department since 13 January; if so, what matters were discussed; and what was the outcome.
Hansard source (Citation: HL Deb, 3 February 2010, c52W)Email me when Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead speaksMost recent apperancesNumerologyFull profile ...
Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead (Labour)

A meeting was held on 19 January 2010 between staff at the British Consulate-General (BCG), Hong Kong and Hong Kong immigration department (HKID). It was called at the request of HKID, to discuss procedures for those British Nationals (Overseas) (BN(O)s) who wished to apply for registration as British citizens under Section 4B of the British Nationality Act 1981, and who needed to obtain documentary evidence that they did not hold Chinese citizenship. The original procedure advised by HKID was for 4B applicants to apply for an Hong Kong special administrative region passport. If these applicants had not registered or naturalised as Chinese citizens, nor had an automatic claim to Chinese citizenship, their application would be rejected and they would be issued with a full refund for the passport fee. The rejection letter would serve as documentary evidence in their application for registration as a British citizen under Section 4B of the British Nationality Act 1981. After four days of using this procedure, HKID requested that it be changed. Both sides agreed to simplify the process, with the BCG liaising directly with HKID to verify whether 4B applicants had registered or naturalised, or whether they had an automatic claim to Chinese citizenship.

[pkreli]

Thanks for the update Mimi!

Now that one problem is taken care of, what shall we do about the other ? The matter of producing 'Nepaelse citizenship issued in error' letter ?

[mimi]

Hi there,

We must not get an individual letter from the Nepalese Authority to produce to the British Authority as Nepalese Govt. has already clarified them. Bear in mind that each individual letter might have different wording according from where you get it from (eg; Nepal consulate Hong Kong, Nepal Embassy UK or letter from Nepal etc), and all depends on how British Govt. interprete them. Therefore, we must not put ourselves into troblem by producing different letters from Nepalese Authority. As Damar Thapa has already mentioned it as well.

I have submitted my application based on the fact that Nepalese Government has already clarified the situation of BN(O) holdrers.

thanks

Mimi

[pkreli]

Hi Mimi

Ok so they did accept your application without the said error letter ? And did you enclose copies of the previous letter issued by Nepal Foreign Ministry and/or HK Nepalese Consulate ? Please do keep updating how it goes for you.

[mimi]

Dear friends
The clarification from policy advisor about status of Nepalese Citizenship.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/f ... iew=Binary


Annex B
Dear
BRITISH NATIOANL (OVERSEAS) - CHILDREN OF GURKHS IN HONG KONG

Thank you for your letter of 21 June regarding British citizenship for British Nationals (Overseas) (BN(O)s) who are the children of Gurkha soldiers.

Under British nationality law there are two provisions that give an entitlement for BN(O)s to register as British citizens.
Firstly for those BN(O)s who have had 5 years lawful residence in the UK it may be possible to register under Section 4(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981. Please find enclosed the Guide B(OTA) which provides further details on the criteria that must be met in order to be registered under this provision. You will note that there is no requirement under this provision for BN(O)s to hold no other nationality, so those British nationals who are dual citizens could apply under this provision..
Secondly, the British Nationality (Hong Kong) Act 1997 provides that those BN(O)s who are ordinarily resident in Hong Kong (both on the date of application and immediately 4 February 1997) and who hold no other citizenship but BN(O) (on 4 February 1997 or, if BN(O) status was obtained after that date, whatever date BN(O) status was acquired on). Please find enclosed a copy of our Guide EM, which explains the requirements for registration under this provision more fully, in particular how we would determine whether an applicant can meet the “ordinarily resident in Hong Kong” criteria.

With respect to your particular question about the proof we would require to show that an applicant does not hold Nepalese citizenship, it is clear from Section 9(2) of the Nepalese Citizenship Act 1964 that anyone who is a dual Nepalese citizen by birth will automatically loose their Nepali citizenship when they reach the age of 21 if they have not renounced their other citizenship. Therefore it would be sufficient for our purposes for an applicant to provide evidence that they are over 21 and hold BN(O) status.

You should note however that where an individual may have a claim to another citizenship in addition to Nepalese (for example where one parent is Nepalese but the other parent holds a different nationality) we may require evidence that the applicant does not hold this additional citizenship.
Finally, you have asked that all those BN(O)s in the UK with pending applications for British citizenship be permitted to remain in the UK whilst their applications are being considered. I am afraid that I

[pkreli]

Hi Mimi,

Thanks for the info. Really useful.

Please advise whether you had any difficulty submitting the application without the 'error' letter. Did you also submit copies of the previous letters sent by Nepalese Consulate to British Consulate (the one that says BN(O) automatically lost Nepalese citizenship upon turning 21) and any other supporting documents to prove that you lost your Nepalese citizenship?

Thanks.

[damar]

Dear all,
Please see Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead's answer to House of Lords at the following URL:

http://bornbefore76inhongkong.forumportal.us/acp/index.php?download=/files/9Feb2010-Response-Nepal.pdf

What an answer – honestly, I could not make a head or tail of it!

We know Nepalese authororties have issued two letters (at least), clarifying the Nepalese nationality status of BN(O)s of Nepalese origin, but Home office apparrantly is not happy with those. It is incredible, however, that the Home Office has chosen:

(i)to seek clarification from individuals (British Nationals) to get the required statements from the Nepalese Authorities, and
(ii) not to seek statement from the Nepalese Authorities (Consulate General of Nepal in Hong Kong), but to wait for Nepalese Authorities' regular update.

My questions:

(i) What if Nepalese Authorities choose not to issue any letters? It is afterall an interpretation of Nepalese law at the time (Nepal Citizenship Act 1964) - which, I believe, has already been clarified, and both British and Nepalese authorities have accepted.
(ii) Would not it be appropriate to seek clarification from the Nepalese authorities than from the individuals (British Nationals)?

Totally acceptable answer!

With regards,
Damar

[pkreli]

आखिर डमर जी ले भने जस्तै भयो। केही व्यक्तिहरुले त्यस्तो चिठी बनाएर दिइसकेको हुनाले नेपाल सरकारले दिइराखेकै छ भन्ने कुरा आइहाल्यो नि। अब त त्यो चिठी जसरी भए पनि बनाएर दिनु बाहेक अरु उपाय छैन जस्तो छ। अरु केही उपाय छ भने भन्नुहोस् साथीहरु। मीमी ले त्यो चिठी बिना नै निवेदन कसरी दिन पाउनुभयो सल्लाह दिनु भए हुन्थ्यो।

[damar]

pkreli जी ,

नेपाल को पत्र बिनानै application गर्नत त्यती गाह्रो छैन - मैले बुझे सम्म कुनै applicant ले अपुग document भएको application पनि submit गर्न चाहेको खन्डमा British Consulate-General Hong Kong ले accept गर्नु पर्ने हुन्छ। तर हाम्रो लडाईं त Hong Kong मा submission भन्दा पनि UK मा कसरी application approve गराउने तिर हेर्नु पर्ने हुन्छ।

Thank,
With regards,
Damar

[mimi]

Dear Friends

I have been asked personalised letter by Home office in respect to my application.

I replied them to refer letter sumbitted by the Nepalese Authorities and the guidence notes by the policy advisor in "Annex A"

Althought I have been issue letter by Nepalese consulate but I do not want to give them personalised letter as the Nepalese Goverment has given them clear cut statement covering all Nepalese BN(O)'s

I would like to thank Damar Thapa for helping us and advised me earlier not to submit any other documents.

Regards

[Dev]

Dear Mimi

When did you applied and where in UK or in HK?
Did home office replied anything about your applicaation?
Did home office asked anything about your applicaation?
How long does it take to response from them?